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Routine crashes even with SIP and Secure Boot Off

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(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

Just tried replying and it posted before I could finish and edit my attachments. These are the two attachments I was trying to provide, not the one I just sent.

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Posted : 23/11/2019 1:19 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

If other posters on this thread are all having identical issues, it feels like there is more happening here than just needing to clear my caches?

At least 3 folks in this thread are describing identical behavior (computer crashes after going to sleep when RAID enclosure is plugged in, crashes stop and computer functions like normal when RAID enclosure is not plugged in).

I will download Onyx and Clea my caches if necessary, but considering the hours upon hours upon hours of trying to get up and running again after installing Catalina and then having to redo my entire RAID, I'm not feeling very encouraged this will do anything :-(

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Posted : 23/11/2019 2:51 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

Just turned my sleep settings back to "prevent from sleeping" after running tests so I could get some work done, then about 20 minutes later, randomly, got these popups

1) SoftRAID has detected a problem
SoftRAID has detected a problem with your Mac. This problem may cause your volumes to become corrupted or unusable. To prevent this problem from occurring, turn off sleep in the Energy Saver panel of System Preferences (note that I had just turned sleep off again about 10 minutes BEFORE this error popped up)

2) Disk for SoftRAID Volume Disappeared (error popped up at the exact same time as #1)
A dick for the SoftRAID Volume "RAID5" was removed or stopped responding while the volume was mounted and in use.

3) Disk Not Ejected Properly (Apple system error)
Eject "RAID5" before disconnecting or turning it off.

Restarted computer and so far, nothing is locked up or corrupt on my RAID...

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Posted : 23/11/2019 3:14 pm
(@softraid-support)
Member Admin

The disk ejecting is a totally independent issue, caused by (in my opinion) a thunderbolt chip crashing/resetting, which ejects the disks. This has been a thorn for years now and Apple/intel have paid little attention to it. Lets ignore this for now, as it should be a relatively rare event. Make sure your cables are tightly connected for now.

The crash issue, there is some progress, I have a user who is getting this with all Apple formatted disks, which is what I would predict, as SoftRAID is not in the backtrace.

I still cannot reproduce this in the office, sadly. I have tried multiple enclosures, computers, etc. I have looked at every one's support files and cannot find what is in common. (yet)

I have another engineering meeting on Tuesday, we will review this in depth again.

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Posted : 24/11/2019 7:03 am
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

The crash issue, there is some progress, I have a user who is getting this with all Apple formatted disks, which is what I would predict, as SoftRAID is not in the backtrace.

I still cannot reproduce this in the office, sadly. I have tried multiple enclosures, computers, etc. I have looked at every one's support files and cannot find what is in common. (yet)

I have another engineering meeting on Tuesday, we will review this in depth again.

Thanks for the update. By Apple formatted, do you mean APFS or Mac OS Extended? I had tried APFS with the first enclosure after the first crash immediately after upgrading to Catalina. When the new enclosure was sent, support had me format it as Mac OS Extended.

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Posted : 24/11/2019 9:02 am
(@softraid-support)
Member Admin

The format would not matter, the key is the driver is Apple's.

Have you already replaced your Thunderbay and getting this same identical problem with both?

that would point to the computer, if so.

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Posted : 24/11/2019 10:28 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

Thank you.

Thunderbay was replaced because of a warning that it was corrupt or something of that nature and my data was at risk if I didn't back it up immediately. Only happened immediately after Catalina was installed, was working great up to that point. Can't remember if the sleep issue happened then, but I know it never happened before Catalina.

Computer is a new iMac only 7 months old.

Did a little more research and the crashing while asleep problem has been plaguing Apply for a long time, but with Catalina, particularly with different types of external storage, is a problem for lots of folks. Lots of threads about this, and like me, it wasn't happening to anyone before Catalina.

Curious to see how your meeting goes Tuesday. Apple has to be aware of this issue because when I first called Apple before hitting up this forum, they immediately zeroed in on the sleep function. I hadn't even narrowed it down to being related to sleep yet at that point. Of course nothing they told me to do helped.

Thanks

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Posted : 25/11/2019 11:11 am
(@softraid-support)
Member Admin

Thanks for the feedback. This tells me this is very likely a computer related bug/issue, I will bring this up tomorrow. What I have noticed is most of these complaints are iMacs, also.

your Thunderbay perhaps should not have been replaced for that problem, that seems more like a Directory issue (solution: backup/restore, or run Disk Warrior to rebuild the directory).

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Posted : 25/11/2019 12:42 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

Thanks for the feedback. This tells me this is very likely a computer related bug/issue, I will bring this up tomorrow. What I have noticed is most of these complaints are iMacs, also.

your Thunderbay perhaps should not have been replaced for that problem, that seems more like a Directory issue (solution: backup/restore, or run Disk Warrior to rebuild the directory).

I didn't expect them to replace it but we kept trying to wipe it, reformat it, and put data back on it and the problems were persisting. As soon as I had one problem and we'd try to fix it, another problem would came up. All immediately after Catalina. No issues before then.

Since the new one, the only problem has been this sleep /crash issue with Thunderbay plugged in.

Oh, and we weren't able to fix the date for some reason on the drives. The created on date was a future date, it was very weird. No matter how many times we tried reformatting them. Finally support had me test by changing the system date/time settings to the next day on the computer, reformatting the drives, and that worked with the next date created on date. But when I put the system settings back to the actual date, the original problem persisted again. Very odd. But it didn't prevent me from using the drives, so we did move my data back to them and ever since the only problem is the sleep / crash issue.

Everything was aces before Catalina.

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Posted : 25/11/2019 12:49 pm
(@null-root)
Eminent Member Customer

No problem, I will support you on this.

I just had a user with zero SoftRAID volumes report this. So we have additional ammunition to work with Apple on.

I realize SoftRAID may not be the primary culprit, but the OWC enclosure certainly is. I have many other HD enclosures, some RAID, some not, and didn't experience any of this until acquiring the Thunderbolt 6.

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Topic starter Posted : 29/11/2019 7:48 am
(@softraid-support)
Member Admin

This does not seem to be an enclosure issue, but it is possible. (I am arranging a swap so I can get one sleep triggering unit in house)

This also appeared to be triggered exclusively with iMac's, until I had a customer with a MacBook Pro with this problem. So far, we have seen less than 10 reports, out of tens of thousands of users running Catalina. (If this happened with other enclosures, I would have no data, unlike "Disk eject" issues, which do happen on all brands of enclosures).
I do not know how many more "unreported" users there are, but this seems like less than .1% of users are affected.

And it is only under Catalina that this is occurring.

These are difficult problems to figure out, when so few users (relatively) are being hit with this.

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Posted : 30/11/2019 2:09 am
(@softraid-support)
Member Admin

Also, if any users can test with a clean system install of Catalina on an external drive, it would be very useful to know if the awake from sleep crash still happens.

And we may be able to create a special debug app that can help figure out the cause of the crash. Please post if you have time to perform this test.

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Posted : 30/11/2019 2:12 am
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

No problem, I will support you on this.

I just had a user with zero SoftRAID volumes report this. So we have additional ammunition to work with Apple on.

I realize SoftRAID may not be the primary culprit, but the OWC enclosure certainly is. I have many other HD enclosures, some RAID, some not, and didn't experience any of this until acquiring the Thunderbolt 6.

Same for me. The sleep/crash issue only happens with the OWC enclosure. Other external drives can be plugged in and the computer will go to sleep and wake up without any problems. It only crashes when the Thunderbay is plugged in.

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Posted : 01/12/2019 12:01 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

No problem, I will support you on this.

I just had a user with zero SoftRAID volumes report this. So we have additional ammunition to work with Apple on.

I realize SoftRAID may not be the primary culprit, but the OWC enclosure certainly is. I have many other HD enclosures, some RAID, some not, and didn't experience any of this until acquiring the Thunderbolt 6.

Same for me. The sleep/crash issue only happens with the OWC enclosure. Other external drives can be plugged in and the computer will go to sleep and wake up without any problems. It only crashes when the Thunderbay is plugged in.

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Posted : 01/12/2019 12:01 pm
(@melzar)
Active Member Customer

These are difficult problems to figure out, when so few users (relatively) are being hit with this.

From what I've found lots of people are having sleep/crash issues post Catalina when using external storage, or even external monitors. Lots of threads and replies in Apply support forums. I've narrowed mine down to be that it only does this with the OWC enclosure. All my other external drives and docks allow the sleep function to work fine.

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250717203

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250717203?answerId=251369511022#251369511022

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250775084

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250716345

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/250750604

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Posted : 01/12/2019 12:09 pm
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