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High Sierra 10.13.1 update and Softraid 5.6.3

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(@jim80z)
Posts: 7
Member
Topic starter
 

Hi

Pertinent pieces of my setup:
Mac Pro 5,1
Sonnet Tempo SSD Pro Plus
2 x Samsung 850 Pro
Sonnet Card + 2x Samsung SSDs is my boot drive

I followed the instructions and installed SR 5.6.3 and High Sierra no problems and the machine is stable with no apparent issues.

I have just tried to install 10.13.1 High Sierra update and it failed. Still at 10.13 on the boot disk. Thank fully still functional. The install process:
- Downloads ok
- Starts install
- Reboots and continues install and boot
- At boot should ~15 minute duration....goes to the right time line until about 9 minutes in and then flies through the last few minutes boots up into 10.13
- naturally app store tells me I have an update to 10.13.1 waiting.

Has anyone else seen this? Do we have to go through the original High Sierra install procedure for every update?? ie duplicate to normal drive update then copy over boot disk etc

Thanks

Jim

 
Posted : 08/11/2017 5:54 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

Yes you probably do have to do a install to a normal drive to update High Sierra.

this appears to be a direction Apple is moving, not supporting installing from anything but a standard Apple formatted disk/volume.
(We have heard that is actually the goal)

If we can replicate this in house, we can report it as a bug, then see if we get a response. (The original explanation from Apple on why a standard disk is required is to ensure that a firmware update gets installed - this has been done, with a . update, so the installer should support other partition types.)

 
Posted : 09/11/2017 12:04 am
(@jim80z)
Posts: 7
Member
Topic starter
 

Thank you

BTW I have a install.log file thats mostly the failed install. Happy to forward to you if you like.

Also I forgot to mention I have a non-efi GTX1080 card installed.....it posed a problem during the original install so I had to remove it and left the GT120 in to progress (lots off notes on this online), may try 10.13.1 update with the GTX1080 removed to see if thats causing something.

Jim

 
Posted : 09/11/2017 2:21 am
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

Let us know about the video card, yes.

 
Posted : 09/11/2017 1:11 pm
(@jim80z)
Posts: 7
Member
Topic starter
 

Hi

Some tests.

Test 1
- Took out the GTX1080
- Tried to install 10.13.1
- no difference to above description of failure

Test 2
- CCC the soft raid boot drive to a 3TB traditional HD
- rebooted on 3TB drive and tried to install 10.13.1
- looked like it went all the way through and then told me it didn't install (notification)

Test 3
- CCC the soft raid boot drive to a 3TB traditional HD
- removed GTX1080 and Sonnet Tempo card
- rebooted on 3TB drive and tried to install 10.13.1
- looked like it went all the way through
- gave me the dialog re sending info to apple in the event of a crash then look like it finished installing
- then told me it didn't install (notification)
- machine info tells me its still on 10.13

 
Posted : 09/11/2017 7:03 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

With the last configuration, you have the correct data to post to the Apple discussion forums, although they may decline to help on a machine that is "hacked" to support 10.13.

Apple is doing many things to reduce boot flexibility. This may be one of them. The goal is "noble", in that they want to eliminate any chances hackers may take to overrun your system, but in the process, eliminate many features that we rely on for flexibility.

 
Posted : 10/11/2017 12:42 pm
(@jim80z)
Posts: 7
Member
Topic starter
 

Hi

Not sure I understand the term hacked on a machine that is an apple with a normal hard drive and a normal apple graphics card?

In your view where is the best place to post for apple support?

Jim

 
Posted : 10/11/2017 2:45 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

With your machine having the original Graphics card, post this in the Apple discussion forums.

Include:
Steps taken with the factory configuration
System Profiler output (you can anonymize things like the machine serial number, etc)
Crash log (when the install fails and offers to send a report to Apple, you can click send, and there is a option to review the log, copy/paste that into your post. the crash log is also available in Console.log, probably under /Library/Logs/Diagnostic Reports)

It will be a long post, but you will get better response if you include both sys profile and crash logs. Posting full reports is actually encouraged at the Apple forums.

Register at the forums and post here:
https://discussions.apple.com/community/mac_os/high_sierra

 
Posted : 13/11/2017 12:59 pm
(@jim80z)
Posts: 7
Member
Topic starter
 

Hi

As an update. I now have 10.13.1 running on the machine. Process I used is simple enough and previously described ie CCC your raid boot volume to a single traditional disk. Upgrade it to 10.13.1 then CCC it back to your raid volume. I did remove all extra PCI cards and drives to be safe.

The trick seems to be ensuring high sierra is sitting on an APFS volume before running the 10.13.1 upgrade. Looks like the updater doesn't like non APFS volumes??

Jim

 
Posted : 23/11/2017 2:54 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

That would be a strange 10.13 bug, it should not matter.

Its something we can investigate

 
Posted : 24/11/2017 10:55 am
(@jays_ct)
Posts: 5
Member
 

Hi

As an update. I now have 10.13.1 running on the machine. Process I used is simple enough and previously described ie CCC your raid boot volume to a single traditional disk. Upgrade it to 10.13.1 then CCC it back to your raid volume. I did remove all extra PCI cards and drives to be safe.

The trick seems to be ensuring high sierra is sitting on an APFS volume before running the 10.13.1 upgrade. Looks like the updater doesn't like non APFS volumes??

Jim

Jim,

I'd like to be sure I understand your steps in getting to High Sierra. I have a Mac Pro 5,1 also with Sonnet Pro Plus SSD acting as the boot disk. I was not on 10.13, but on El Capitan. When you say "single traditional disk" are you talking about an external HDD (which would be non-APFS) or creating an APFS based image (say on SSD) and then CCC'ing back to the Sonnet Tempo Card already in the machine. I have a full back up of the El Cap system that's on the Sonnet Dual SSD PCI/e card. Appreciate any help..

Jay S.

 
Posted : 02/01/2018 12:20 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

The file system on the disk to be used as the source for cloning the boot volume has to be the same as the target. (I do not believe CCC or SuperDuper allow for mixing file systems on cloning, but they may allow cloning an HFS volume to an APFS, I have not tested that - certainly you cannot do the reverse at this time.)

So for simplicity sake, keep both the 10.13 external disk (it can be any disk, formatted by Disk Utility as non RAID) and the internal SoftRAID volume as HFS+.

Especially on the Mac Pro, stick with HFS+, as APFS boot volumes are significantly slower than HFS+ volumes (50% on HDD's and about 35% on SSD's). Its likely Apple did not consider users would notice or complain about slower performance with APFS, but it is a reality.

On new machines, users are unlikely to notice the slowdown from APFS on their boot drives unless they run benchmarking tests. However, external HDD's will be noticeable slower than before.

 
Posted : 02/01/2018 12:58 pm
(@jays_ct)
Posts: 5
Member
 

The file system on the disk to be used as the source for cloning the boot volume has to be the same as the target. (I do not believe CCC or SuperDuper allow for mixing file systems on cloning, but they may allow cloning an HFS volume to an APFS, I have not tested that - certainly you cannot do the reverse at this time.)

So for simplicity sake, keep both the 10.13 external disk (it can be any disk, formatted by Disk Utility as non RAID) and the internal SoftRAID volume as HFS+.

Especially on the Mac Pro, stick with HFS+, as APFS boot volumes are significantly slower than HFS+ volumes (50% on HDD's and about 35% on SSD's). Its likely Apple did not consider users would notice or complain about slower performance with APFS, but it is a reality.

On new machines, users are unlikely to notice the slowdown from APFS on their boot drives unless they run benchmarking tests. However, external HDD's will be noticeable slower than before.

Thanks for the reply.. My understanding was SSDs were automatically formatted as APFS, but to your point then, install High Sierra to an HDD frist (which would be HFS), then CCC back to the RAID volume. On Macbook Pro, there was no option as it goes to APFS and yes is slower, but no way to get to Pro Apps (like FCPX) without High Sierra. :-( As for CCC, I found this on their page.. Hope it helps.. I was also curious though because I also have the Sonnet Tempo Pro which is a hardware RAID (currently bootable in El Cap).

https://bombich.com/kb/ccc5/everything-you-need-know-about-carbon-copy-cloner-and-apfs

Jay S.

 
Posted : 02/01/2018 1:56 pm
(@softraid-support)
Posts: 6954
Member Admin
 

Only SSD's in Apple format, that are internal disks.

THe link you provided is good, and apparently CCC can clone HFS to APFS and APFS to HFS. good info.

 
Posted : 02/01/2018 2:59 pm
(@jays_ct)
Posts: 5
Member
 

Only SSD's in Apple format, that are internal disks.

THe link you provided is good, and apparently CCC can clone HFS to APFS and APFS to HFS. good info.

You're welcome on the link. :-) So we're not talking typical 2.5" SSDs on a pci/e sled attached to the bus, but more the internal built in SSDs like a Macbook Pro or even (interestingly enough) the Fusion Drives in some of the newer Apple devices which are hardware RAID 0.. Still wish I knew if High Sierra will recognize what were bootable devices (PCI/e, Software, etc.).

Jay S.

 
Posted : 02/01/2018 3:16 pm
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