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10 years
In your 10 years of ownership, how often did you create a brand new raid volume? The standard "free" softraid license does essentially almost everything: read/write access, OS updates, rebuilding array with new drives.
This blows the Total cost of ownership over, say, 10 years (that's how long I had my Promise R6 before I sold it) of any OWC Raid well above any other solution on the market just to use the device as intended.
Cost wise, still lower than other solutions on the market. Take for example the G-RAID. A 48TB unit presently costs $2,799.99 (previously listed at $3,499.99). 48TB Thunderbay costs $2149.99. $650 difference. In a 10 year period, you would have SoftRAID premium for free for the first 3 years. If you chose not to renew, that would be the end of the story, and your drive would work the same just like before. But say you renewed your license because you wanted drive failure prediction/email alerts and the ability to create a new RAID volume every single year. That would be $79.99 per year. Multiply that by 7 years, and you're at $559.93. So still 90 cheaper. But say in that 10 year period, you decided that you needed more storage. Or you went from Thunderbolt X to Thunderbolt X+1. So you buy another enclosure. That immediately puts you back into SoftRAID premium for another 3 years which still works on your original enclosure.
I also did the math for the G-RAID XL and Pegasus. The same math holds up as before. So yeah, it's not well above any other solution on the market. Often times, it is lower. And considering that most people upgrade their stuff well within a 10 year period, the cost delta is even greater.
I have some RAID arrays that are 10+ years old. Funny thing- I can't even run the software for them any more on my current Apple Silicon computer.
Posted : 26/03/2024 2:16 pm
Topic starter
We extended your license until end of the year. We hope you will be pleased with functionality, the email support, the upgrades coming and can budget for maintaining your subscription.
The poster is correct, the free version meets basic requirements. My Pegasus was unusable for about 2 years with the Apple Silicon transition, it would not even recognize drives.
When controllers fail, there is no support or controller replacements. So, while you seem to get a long lasting enclosure, after warranty, there is no expectation of support if anything fails. YOu may, or may not. And the RAID manufacturer is under no obligation to make their older hardware compatible. Like printer manufaturers, they often do for a couple more years, then not.
We are actively supporting 2014 thunderbay enclosures. Yes if this is your one and only enclosure, it costs annualy for SoftRAID. But your RAID, enclosure adn support are active and available the entire time. Most customers refresh their enclosures every 3-4 years, however. A SoftRAID Premium license (i.e, active support) covers all the enclosures for your computer, so there is added value there also.
Posted : 26/03/2024 6:12 pm
10 years
In your 10 years of ownership, how often did you create a brand new raid volume? The standard "free" softraid license does essentially almost everything: read/write access, OS updates, rebuilding array with new drives.
Cost wise, still lower than other solutions on the market. Take for example the G-RAID. A 48TB unit presently costs $2,799.99 (previously listed at $3,499.99). 48TB Thunderbay costs $2149.99. $650 difference. In a 10 year period, you would have SoftRAID premium for free for the first 3 years. If you chose not to renew, that would be the end of the story, and your drive would work the same just like before. But say you renewed your license because you wanted drive failure prediction/email alerts and the ability to create a new RAID volume every single year. That would be $79.99 per year. Multiply that by 7 years, and you're at $559.93. So still 90 cheaper. But say in that 10 year period, you decided that you needed more storage. Or you went from Thunderbolt X to Thunderbolt X+1. So you buy another enclosure. That immediately puts you back into SoftRAID premium for another 3 years which still works on your original enclosure.
I also did the math for the G-RAID XL and Pegasus. The same math holds up as before. So yeah, it's not well above any other solution on the market. Often times, it is lower. And considering that most people upgrade their stuff well within a 10 year period, the cost delta is even greater.
I have some RAID arrays that are 10+ years old. Funny thing- I can't even run the software for them any more on my current Apple Silicon computer.
The cost analysis you provided doesn't align with the prices we see in Australia. Here's a more accurate breakdown:
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The Promise R32 with a 16TB drive is listed at A$2,400.00 on the Apple website, with no ongoing costs. This makes the Total Cost of Ownership (TCO) over 10 years exactly A$2,400.
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For the OWC Thunderbay 16TB with 4 drives, the cost is A$2,249.99. SoftRAID offers the first 3 years free, and the remaining 7 years are charged at US$79 per year, which is roughly AU$140 with the current exchange rate. Over 7 years, this totals AU$980.
Therefore, the TCO for the OWC Thunderbay over 10 years is AU$3,229.
It's worth noting, beyond the cost, the reliability and compatibility of these devices. OWC devices experienced significant issues for nearly a year after transitioning to Apple Silicon. In contrast, my Promise devices have always performed reliably. Even my older Promise R6 only required a Thunderbolt 2 to Thunderbolt 3 dongle to work seamlessly.
Given that Apple sells Promise devices directly, it seems they have a vested interest in ensuring these devices maintain compatibility and performance. The issues with OWC devices, which were significant for over six months
Posted : 26/03/2024 10:45 pm
We extended your license until end of the year. We hope you will be pleased with functionality, the email support, the upgrades coming and can budget for maintaining your subscription.
The poster is correct, the free version meets basic requirements. My Pegasus was unusable for about 2 years with the Apple Silicon transition, it would not even recognize drives.
When controllers fail, there is no support or controller replacements. So, while you seem to get a long lasting enclosure, after warranty, there is no expectation of support if anything fails. YOu may, or may not. And the RAID manufacturer is under no obligation to make their older hardware compatible. Like printer manufaturers, they often do for a couple more years, then not.
We are actively supporting 2014 thunderbay enclosures. Yes if this is your one and only enclosure, it costs annualy for SoftRAID. But your RAID, enclosure adn support are active and available the entire time. Most customers refresh their enclosures every 3-4 years, however. A SoftRAID Premium license (i.e, active support) covers all the enclosures for your computer, so there is added value there also.
To begin, could you guide me on how to update my licence? It's currently showing as inactive, and I'd like to rectify this.
Regarding our discussion on RAID systems post-Apple Silicon transition, my experience seems to diverge significantly from what's been described. Throughout this transition, Promise devices remained functional for me, a stark contrast to my three OWC Thunderbays, which essentially became unusable for almost a year. This is well-documented in my support ticket history.
I owned a Promise R6 for a decade, which continued to operate seamlessly even after the transition to Apple Silicon, thanks to a Thunderbolt 2 to 3 dongle. Similarly, when my 4-year-old Promise R32 started showing issues last month—well outside its warranty period—Promise support had a replacement unit on its way to me within 10 days. This level of service is commendable and worth noting.
While I believe that the necessary software to operate hardware should come without extra charges, I'm not entirely against the idea of a fee. However, the issue arises with the update fee, particularly for those of us in Australia, where the cost is nearly double that of the USA. This significant discrepancy makes it a challenging pill to swallow.
Posted : 26/03/2024 10:59 pm
Topic starter
Just deactivate/activate to have SoftRAID "phone home".
I had a promise R6 and it was inoperable after M1's were released. no management software, no way to get it to even show the disks. Maybe there was another issue, but that was my experience. I am very happy to hear they took care of you, however, few companies do that these days.
Posted : 26/03/2024 11:28 pm
Topic starter
Keep in mind with your comparison that very few RAID enclosures stay "single" for more than 3 years in any production enviropment. While an end user such as your may be able to use a RAID for 10 years, its not possible in production, the drives are far too small in about 2-3 years. When a company purchases additional enclosures, that is 3 more years of support with SoftRAID.
One other thing Promise has done to the positive is remove the restriction to only buy replacement drives from them. That was a very expensive proposition. It appears you can now pretty much use any commercial drives as replacements.
I think the Thunderbays are great value. On Amazon, in the US, a 48TB Promise RAID costs $4,000 US. A 48TB Thunderbay is 2,100-2,300. (depending on whether you get 4 drives or 8 drives) That is a very big difference.
Our 16TB 4 drive RAID Thunderbay is only 1350 here. I am not sure where you got your prices. I would imagine prices are much higher in Australia. Maybe the Promise were closeouts? Its hard to believe they are the same price when there is a very substantial price difference in the USA. Just use Amazon to compare.
As another comparison, the Promise 144TB vs OWC Thunderbay's are priced at (approximately) $5,000 vs 10,000 USD. By your standards, even adding in 7 years of SoftRAID support, that is $5,600 vs $10,000.
Posted : 26/03/2024 11:41 pm
Keep in mind with your comparison that very few RAID enclosures stay "single" for more than 3 years in any production enviropment. While an end user such as your may be able to use a RAID for 10 years, its not possible in production, the drives are far too small in about 2-3 years. When a company purchases additional enclosures, that is 3 more years of support with SoftRAID.
One other thing Promise has done to the positive is remove the restriction to only buy replacement drives from them. That was a very expensive proposition. It appears you can now pretty much use any commercial drives as replacements.
I think the Thunderbays are great value. On Amazon, in the US, a 48TB Promise RAID costs $4,000 US. A 48TB Thunderbay is 2,100-2,300. (depending on whether you get 4 drives or 8 drives) That is a very big difference.
Our 16TB 4 drive RAID Thunderbay is only 1350 here. I am not sure where you got your prices. I would imagine prices are much higher in Australia. Maybe the Promise were closeouts? Its hard to believe they are the same price when there is a very substantial price difference in the USA. Just use Amazon to compare.
As another comparison, the Promise 144TB vs OWC Thunderbay's are priced at (approximately) $5,000 vs 10,000 USD. By your standards, even adding in 7 years of SoftRAID support, that is $5,600 vs $10,000.
No, the Promise is the same price Apple always sells them for. The OWC price is from MacFixIt one of your resellers here in Australia.
As a business customer, I got mine for AU$1999, so it's even cheaper than the OWC. The issues I had with SoftRaid after the Migration to Silicon were just scary. Luckily, at that time, I used OWC only for backups and had a Promise as my working drive; otherwise, it would have been even worse.
I understand the pricing structure for SoftRAID might not significantly impact larger operations, but for smaller content creators like myself, with a following of 60,000 subscribers, the financial situation is quite different. We operate with more constrained budgets and cannot easily absorb the costs associated with high-end licenses.
Given that your product range includes several options geared towards prosumer-level users—not just major production houses—it seems logical to offer a tiered licensing model. A more affordable license for prosumer products would align better with the needs and financial realities of smaller studios and independent creators. Conversely, a premium license could cater to the requirements of high-end, commercial users.
For customers interested in simpler solutions, like the dual-drive RAID systems, the ongoing costs under the current model are prohibitively expensive. This might be a reason why these costs aren't prominently advertised.
Introducing a differentiated licensing model could make your products more accessible to a wider range of users, bridging the gap between casual enthusiasts and professional studios.
Posted : 27/03/2024 1:04 am
@softraid-support does not seem to work
Still shows Standard Licence
This post was modified 2 years ago by steve223
This post was modified 2 years ago by SoftRAID Support
Posted : 27/03/2024 1:10 am
Topic starter
On smaller enclosures, remember SoftRAID Standard is free. It is superior to Apple RAID. Users do not need too many feautures,so if all they have is a dual drive enclosure, for RAID 0/1, they are taken care of already.
RAID 5 requires support. If users do not want support, just plug and go, and not touch anything, after 3 years, we have SoftRAID standard, which is free.
So I do think for the vast majority of users, there is something for them. 3 years of Premium, then for those who are either on a tight budget, or do not purchase enclosures for many years, a Standard, free, license they can use. I do think we have covered your objections.
Your change in license had a typo, it is fixed now.
Posted : 27/03/2024 9:49 am
@softraid-support support is not my concern as, ideally, the software should work, and I should not need support. If I need support, it should be included because it means I have an issue with your Software. If people don't need it why not include it for the lower-level units under 4k? If I purchase a Raid, I usually increase capacity when HD need replacement, so I need to build a new array (the whole purpose of a Raid). Anyway, I'm not alone. Many of the reviewers in various forums say the same.
Keep in mind I purchased a Raid solution. I need whatever it needs to do its job bundled with the Hardware. Quite simple.
This post was modified 2 years ago 2 times by steve223
Posted : 27/03/2024 4:26 pm
Topic starter
"Keep in mind I purchased a Raid solution. I need whatever it needs to do its job bundled with the Hardware. Quite simple."
That is what you have. When you purchase a car, when warranty expires, you do not get free Sirius, free GPS, free oil changes, free upgrades. You bought a vehicle with a warranty. When the warranty expires, "support" costs money in most cases.
When you buy a premium network router, it has a monthly subscription.
This is a RAID enclosure, with drives and software. It had a 3 year warranty.
We offer free software upgrades for 3 years, while the enclosure is under warranty. After that, further upgrades/support are up to the user.
We now offer a free limited version of SoftRAID to all users who's warranty (or support plans) are expired.
This is a boring thread at this point.
Posted : 27/03/2024 5:43 pm
When a single HDD fails, I doubt most people replace every single drive in their array. The free version of SoftRAID allows you to swap out the failed drive, rebuild your array and keep using it. All for free. Including on future versions of the software that were created to be compatible with MacOS versions that don't even exist yet. And for free- this is a big jump from the previous licensing model that required you to purchase just to upgrade the OS in your system.
When you had your previous 10 year old array, how many times did you replace all the drives with new capacity ones. I bet it was less than 7 times (once per year after the first 3 years). If so, SoftRAID standard is even better for you given your budget. Imagine that you purchased a solution. For the first 3 years, you have SoftRAID premium at no additional cost. Say you like to replace your drives every 5 years. So for two years, your license reverts to SoftRAID standard. Your array works just as intended. 5 years in, you decide you want to replace the drives. So you purchase a single Premium license. Now you can do the volume creation, disk monitoring, etc. Then for the remaining 4 years, you can revert back to the free license. You've just spent even less money than I quoted before! And if you really don't want to pay a dime and support the developers, I guess you could use the trial version to create a new volume.
But lets be realistic, within a 10 year period, you likely buy another storage array. Because either A) you've run out of space and find that just increasing capacity is not enough or B) there is a new interface for your computer to use. I still have a Thunderbolt 1 version of a Thunderbay. And guess, what: I rarely use it, because the TB3 one is faster and easier to plug into my computer.
If you want good software that will stay around, it is not free. There are few companies that produce a product and can provide free updates for 10 years without charging their customers a single dime during those years. I get that you want to be price conscious, but look at the bigger picture here. They've essentially scrapped their previous licensing model and replaced it with something that is actually fair and decent to us customers.
Posted : 27/03/2024 5:56 pm
Uli reacted
@softraid-support Yes, it is boring. I made my point, and many other people did so on the web. Remember that you only offer a limited free version now. Until recently, this was not even an option, so you purchased a brick that stopped working after three years unless you paid rent. Sorry, but comparing a Raid DAS with a car is silly. Not a single other NAS or DAS needs you to pay for yearly software upgrades to retain full functionality, so OWC is on its own there. Over and out
This post was modified 2 years ago by steve223
Posted : 27/03/2024 6:07 pm
This new pricing structure is a shock! I use SoftRAID strictly for certifying new drives (which doesn't happen often because I don't buy new hardware all that often) and for the failure monitoring of existing drives. I have NEVER even used it to create a RAID.
I'm going to need a subscription for my very narrow use case? It seems like your pricing model doesn't take that into account at all.
Posted : 04/04/2024 3:42 pm
Topic starter
Sorry, no we do not have an option at this time for essentially a SMART app, with certify capability. Maybe someday.
Posted : 04/04/2024 6:16 pm
